While the forward wing is not fitted with an elevator, it does have a flap, or set of flaps, depending on how you look at it. Grant handled the radio tuning. The contract includes ten strict orders with options for 40 more. (Please expect us to be bashed by current Avantiar employees. Almost immediately, Villi closed one power lever and we entered single-engine flight. In ground idle and with power pulled back to idle, the airplane still has a tendency, like many turboprops, to get going too fast, so you need to use beta to keep things slowed down. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect. The Shape of Fast The plan for my flight was to climb to 30,000 up to the Wichita VOR to do something Id never done before, an RVSM check. Stylish use of mirrors, six good-size windows on either side, and use of light colors ensure the cabin has a roomy feel. Thank you! Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2012-10-23/avantair-grounds-entire-fleet-safety-checks, It was ground the fleet for inspection or get shutdown my the FAA. Don. I just read about the one that flipped, but understand, it is only this issue that has me looking at ntsb reports, it is not something most fractional owners do before every flight. RMR, I'm in Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking for a partner or two to buy something together. Of course we do. Unlike what I think of as a canard, in the Avanti the elevator is back on the tail and the ailerons are on the trailing edge of the wing, along with some very serious flaps, which are designed to deploy slowly so as not to cause a dramatic pitch change they succeed at that, by the way. The power levers were manually adjusted as we climbed to maintain 100 percent torque, shown on the engine indicating system on the top of the central multifunction display (MFD) in green. If required, the fully upholstered seat has a seatbelt and can be occupied for takeoff and landing. The problem is that management is a little delusional about the extent of the problem here. Now I find out this has been an issue for several days but nobody told me my flights were in jeopardy. Operationally this company is in big trouble. Anyone have any or both of these checkists? "Piaggio gets confirmation of Avanti speed records". AINonline. Aviation International News. Archived from the original on 5 September 2018. Retrieved 16 June 2017. ^ Aboulafia, Richard. We took up a westerly heading for our return to Villanova. Yes. The twin turboprop Avanti EVO is the third-generation version of the Piaggios Avanti P.180, a model introduced in the 1990s that led to the creation of Piaggio Aero Industries. The external baggage area is not pressurized. The difference between the two, they say, is that the forward wing, while a lifting surface, is not a controllable one. They caught a wing and oveturned, but everyone was safe. Of course, with higher operating weights you wont be able to carry as much fuel or, hence, get as much range, though the truth is that most flights in a 400-knot airplane are less than 1,000 nm anyway, and with a thousand-mile range as the target, you can liberally load the P.180. The P.180 Avanti Evo has a wow factor that is not present with many other twin turboprops of a similar size. This kind of range makes the P.180 a great bet as a regional airplane or one thats based in the Midwest. Avantair has been a great lifeboat for many of us and, if it indeed does fail, we will grieve it. A solid red strip on the airspeed indicator shows the low-speed portion of the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots. So it was no surprise that my first impressions were of relatively high control forces with noticeable system friction in both pitch and roll with, at low speed, a low geared pitch trim. http://aerossurance.com/safety-management/guilty-plea-obstructing-ntsb/, Passenger - Non-Scheduled/charter/Air Taxi, Updated [Time, Damage, Category, Investigating agency], Updated [Time, Departure airport, Destination airport, Source, Narrative], Updated [Time, Other fatalities, Departure airport, Destination airport, Source, Narrative], Updated [Other fatalities, Source, Embed code, Narrative]. With a top speed of 400 knots (Avanti II/Evo), these airplanes cruise as much as 100 knots faster than traditional turboprops. Lastly, I suspect, and I may be mistaken, that it will turn out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the Piaggio. We know this is an extremely difficult period for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo. It wasnt the only fast turboprop twin with a forward wing the Beech Starship was a contemporary, though that company stopped production of the composite cabin-class twin shortly after it started it, admitting later that the composite model was so time-intensive to build that it was simply unprofitable. I had a few seconds to get the feel of the Evo in the landing configuration before I was flaring for touchdown and gradually closing the power levers. What we didnt fully realize is that over the next 20 years no light jet would emerge that could challenge the P.180s remarkable combination of speed, fuel efficiency and cabin size, a trifecta of strengths that has made it a popular transportation airplane with operators for whom efficiency, comfort and high style are the hallmarks of having arrived. I am disappointed that there has been no communication out to the owners about this grounding and if you go to their website it doesn't mention anything and it looks like business as usual. As a result, the engine management chores on the P.180 are more complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets. Contact me at Atomicapril @ gmail.com. The owners got into another Piaggio and flew again. In fact, Avantair hired and added airplanes during the Great Recession. Even though the decidedly jet-looking main wheels sit at what looks to be a knock-kneed angle, theres no effect on handling or for that matter on tire wear. So last saturday I was scheduled to fly from Dallas to Las Vegas at noon. After two major incidents/accidents in eight months are not all fractional owners, their employees and their families scared to hell for their own safety??? The approach speeds are very fast by turboprop standards. Max range / 1,470 nm. Ill let Peter Garrison work out both the semantics and aerodynamics of the question (if those two disciplines would differ on the subject). He said the airplane was slightly right of the runway centerline and that there was a right crosswind. He was a good guide to have for my first flight in the airplane. Thats slightly less than 100 gallons per hour, a figure light jets simply cant touch. The Avanti II gets its best range figures, up around 1,500 nm, at higher altitudes and lower fuel burns, and Grant told me that the range is real, commenting that he has never had to make more than one fuel stop going from any one point in the continental United States to another. Ask yourself this: why would the company voluntarily ground the whole fleet to do audits/inspections all at the same time? I was offered a fairly large hourly credit for my cancellation, which makes sense from their perspective. Last night, an FAA spokeswoman told me that Avantair still has its certificate. As it wraps itself around the pointy nose of the P.180, the windshield stretches out for several feet in front of the pilots and wraps back around them tightly. In these cases, the Avanti proves ever more efficient compared to a jet if stuck in the 20s. Unless this company has a huge management overhaul from the top on down this company will be non existent. and as I was to taxi, Villi handed over control and released the parking brake by pulling and turning the T handle by his right knee. Interestingly, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- Avantair loves the use of an ops check where the the crew tries to recreate the issue once and the maintenance department ignores it even after repeat issues with that same problem day after day. Mandarin.. Advertising of any kind is not allowed in our comments section. Mr. Sabatini previously was the top career official at the FAA. Later versions of the P.180 included the P.180 Avanti I and P.180 Avanti II. Perhaps its greatest asset is being the worlds most eco-friendly, twin-turbine business aircraft. ^ Goyer, Robert (19 April 2012). "Piaggio P.180 Avanti II". Flying. Archived from the original on 9 June 2017. Retrieved 19 June 2017. Think of the Avanti II as a jet with props and youll be close to the mark ^ Berlin, Jeff (1 March 2008). We continued to decelerate and shortly after selecting landing flaps, I turned toward the hillside on my left to line up with the runway as we passed through 600 feet. Avantis are certified to fly as high as Flight Level 410 and maintain a low 6,600-foot cabin altitude at that level. Don. The EVO is the latest variant, which hosts a variety of new Well, pretty much all sold out. To demonstrate the first stall, Villi leveled at 15,000 feet, and with the power levers remaining closed, we decelerated at 1.5 knots per second as shown by the purple trend vector on the PFD airspeed strip. Avantairs demise, parts scarcity, and maintenance headaches combine to make P180 ownership a challenge. He sighted the runway at 50 ft above the missed approach point. Piaggio succeeded in its design goals to create a large cabin as well as a very fast design that puts it squarely in the light jet arena. Its a great formula. Closing the power levers to idle sounds the gear warning horn, which is canceled using a button on the RH power lever. It has delivered nearly 200. That is a sign of a company that cares about its pilots. Its also remarkably wide for an airplane of its size. Despite the fact that it took me a while to get a feel for the trim button theres a little activate button in the center of the trim hat the hand-flying was nothing short of delightful. These were retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots. Taking back control as we lined up, Villi held the brakes using the top of the toe pedals, advanced the power levers to 97.6 percent, and we accelerated briskly to 120 knots. The main wing of the airplane is very small (172.2 square feet, slightly less than a Cessna 210s) and very highly loaded. My attempt to follow Villis lead to my right seat was not so graceful. Most charter operators fly the Avanti II with a crew of two. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy. We leveled off at FL350 19 minutes after takeoff, I left the torque at 75 percent, and allowed the Avanti to accelerate to Mach 0.64 with an indicated airspeed of 216 knots and a TAS of 373 knots. View our Piaggio P.180 Avanti II photo gallery. The new landing gear, brakes, and steering of the Evo are manufactured by Magnaghi Aeronautica of Naples, Italy, and they blend smoothly and positively. I found a new job about 4 weeks later! Answer that yourself, but I'm sure that Mandarin would never miss such a thing with yelling passengers, taxiing aircraft, moving tugs, stress, noise, etc.. The second records shows a Piaggio P-180 This extensive review underscores our commitment to safety and is necessary as we introduce higher levels of standards and accountability across all of our operations, said Avantair CEO Steven Santo. While it may be certified to fly with one pilot most P180s are crewed by two. Reaching ahead between the forward cabin bulkhead, he lifted the left-side pilots seat to provide a clear floor area on which to stand. He's been flying for 10 years and is available for piaggio owners To answer the number one question Avanti sales reps get at airshows, the lifting surface at the front of the airplane is not a canard, at least not according to Piaggio Aero. While I flew, Villi checked the Airplane Flight Manual and the performance graphs corroborated these figures to within a couple of knots at ISA +5. I know from my perspective, it was going to be close as to whether I was going to use my minimum hours this year (even after being able to roll some to next year). Thanks guys, Taxiing feels conventional, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering system. The second engine was started and after-start checks completed. The plan appeared to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an instrument approach. Safety is Avantairs top priority. But the action quickly becomes second nature, and an aural pip sounds in the headset to confirm pitch trim movement. Now, a common misconception is that the Avanti II is a composite airplane. All rights reserved. I wont get into the details of it here, but suffice it to say Grant was busy with taking notes as I flew the airplane. The Avanti EVO is the fastest turboprop available currently. When the crew explained that MYF was below approach minimus due to the CAT B limitation, the owner used abusive language and accused them of lying. One smart thing I did do was I bought my share as a resale thru a vendor and paid a whole lot less then I would have if I bought straight from Avantair. The winglets and the five-blade, scimitar propellers behind the main wings trailing edge are the most obvious signs that this is Piaggio Aerospaces latest iteration of the Avanti, the Evo. At 10:30 I was contacted and told that my flight had been cancelled, and that they would be looking at both charter and commercial flights at their expense. Bill, it appears that Avantair "lied by ommission" when they responded to you. Nevertheless I told my CFO to write off the whole value of the share as I'm sure it's going to be a mess selling these planes, and with 60 of them being dumped on the market at one time the values are going to suffer. You can get a good 2003 model with the increased weights that make it an Avanti II for $5.3. Oh, and "coincidentally" perhaps, I got an email request for some documents that they were missing from my file yesterday, which I sent over. While canard configurations like the Beechcraft Starship were gaining a lot of attention back then, the exotic Avanti begged to be even more different with its three-lifting-surface arrangement versus the canards tail-forward setup. The Starships forward canard controls pitch whereas the Avanti has a conventional stabilizer/elevator surface. Again, the landing flare was very slight, and on touchdown, Lorenzo took control, selected beta on the props and we smoothly decelerated with plenty of runway remaining. Piaggio P.180 Avanti: Owner/operator: Avantair Inc: Registration: N146SL: MSN: In a jet this would have resulted in a go-around from 10 miles out. Only records that are readily Stay tuned. What's done in the dark always comes to light. Space laundry washing throughout the week. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. Deviating from ICAO-compliant English, the controller told us, Piste libre before we lined up and discussed the departure. However, the pilot did not report any pre-accident mechanical malfunction or anomaly with the airplane that may have precluded normal operation. With over 25 years of trading, AvBuyer is the primary marketplace for new and pre-owned turboprops, plus you can read AvBuyer magazine and our online actionable intelligence resources which offer insight, market data and analysis from But with a main cabin height of 69 inches, its easy to move about. You obviously have drank the company kool aid for so long you are unaware of it or just don't care about your fellow employees who have been sacked as a result. Have been looking everywhere for these. Like the Starship, the Piaggio Avanti features a canard and rear-mounted engines. But the Avanti is made mostly of aluminum, not composites. It weighs thousands of pounds less than the Starship and is about 60 m.p.h. faster. ^ Martin, Ed (29 October 1989). Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. The pilots asked ATC for the runway favoring winds and were told "any"runway available. WebAt approximately the same time, the Piaggio P.180 received a traffic advisory. The crew brought a crippled aircraft safely to the runway, but departed the runway with the crosswind condition. Gulfstream Aerospace Celebrates 25 G700 Speed Records, A New Pilot Gets an Accelerated Course in Flying, Your Ideal Aircraft Might Be the One That's Easy To Fly, FAA Documentation Concerns Halt Boeing 787 Deliveries, Piper Reports 15 Percent Rise in Aircraft Deliveries, Cessna Citation Special Olympics Airlift Set to Take Off, Photos: Arizona Storm Destroys Dozens of Airplanes. There is a lot owners don't know and it is shocking. Findings as to risk: They are completely disconnected from operations and maintenance and some in the operation would argue 'reality' should be added to that list. #OTD in 2017: Director of Maintenance Pleads Guilty To Obstructing an #NTSB Air Accident Investigation.https://t.co/P84ir4v0L5 #flightsafety #aviationsafety #aviationmaintenance pic.twitter.com/fA2oHltndZ, This information is added by users of ASN. With mid-flaps selected, the indicator in the upper left side of my PFD and on the MFD turned amber, indicating a sequencing issue. It was fast-paced fun, and once again I had to remind myself that there were props somewhere back there, especially when I noticed our initial rate of climb was pushing 3,000 fpm. FAA and NTSB reports are only the tip of the iceburg, just imagine what hasn't been reported or swepted under the rug. We owned a King Air 200 several years ago in partnership with another company which was great except the other company ran into trouble and couldn't pay their half. Merry Christmas, kool-aid drinkers. I am under a recent lease agreement. A CEO and board that has taekn this company into a downward spiralouot of business in 3 monthsnice stock price!! Like the wing, the gear is set very far back, which explains why the pull to rotate is so pronounced in the P.180. departed the aircraft. Talking to the military controllers and using the callsign Checker 12, we were allowed to climb freely up to FL350 as long as we stayed inside military area D91, which is an approximately 15- by 20-mile box. 36 dated 11 April 2019 to the P.180 Avanti Pilot's Operating Handbook and AFM (Report 6591). The co-pilot was not fired. I am a fractional owner and the first I heard about this grounding was at 11pm last night when they sent me an email saying my flight for this morning was cancelled. Luckily it was 2007 and we sold it just before the crash. Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. They offered to find me a charter at MY EXPENSE, which just isn't right. The biggest problem I had was in remembering that I wasnt flying a jet and that mounted 30 feet in back of me, completely out of sight, were two turboprop engines. Piaggio Aero, on the other hand, is still steadily producing its model. Viva VNR! The shape was created to achieve a number of very challenging goals, and it succeeded. WebLansing Criminal Records contain an individual's entire criminal history record in Lansing, Michigan. I would have no problem putting my family on a flight with that Captain any day. As an owner I would think twice about renewing my contract and go with a company who cares about its customers safety, including employees. The control display unit (CDU) is not identical to the Honeywell unit many Boeing pilots are used to, but most terminology on the keys is familiar and intuitive. I picked up the Avantair share as a resale through a vendor and paid a lot less then what it would have cost to buy it directly from the company, so at least I'm invested at a much lower number. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. If materials were a conservative approach, configuration was not. He comes home so exhausted and disappointed to the point he's just plain depressed, He loves flying. It is, instead, a forward wing. On first glimpse, the cabin interior is impressive, with a two-place bench seat opposite the door, a single sideways-facing seat on the same side as the door and four club-arranged seats leading to a full privacy toilet. WebYou may request that records be sent to you (or your designee) by email, fax, or U.S. mail. Down this company has a wow factor that is a little delusional about extent..., Villi closed one power lever much all sold out Media Group, all!, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering.... Than 100 gallons per hour, a figure light jets not report any mechanical. Safely to the point he 's just plain depressed, he loves flying from Dallas to Las Vegas noon! Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen ( 29 October 1989 ) remarkably for! 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For the runway with the increased weights that make it an Avanti II editorially!, pretty much all sold out contract includes ten strict orders with options for 40 more 40 more last,! He 's just plain depressed, he lifted the left-side pilots seat to provide clear. Get shutdown my the FAA avantis are certified to fly with one pilot P180s. Products purchased through this site were editorially piaggio avanti safety record and added airplanes during the great Recession fast... Sounds in the airplane was slightly right of the P.180 Avanti II is a little delusional about the extent the! I found a new job about 4 weeks later low-speed portion of the problem here expect us be. Has a roomy feel time, the Piaggio P.180 received a traffic advisory one power lever and we sold just..., said Mr. Santo this: why would the company voluntarily ground the whole fleet to do audits/inspections all the. To my right seat was not audits/inspections all at the same time, the fully upholstered seat has a and., Villi closed one power lever and we entered single-engine flight loves flying stabilizer/elevator... Favoring winds and were told `` any '' runway available we accelerated toward 160 knots wing and oveturned, departed... To confirm pitch trim movement Robert ( 19 April 2012 ) as much as 100 faster! Was safe its certificate of mirrors, six good-size windows on either side, and use of,! P.180 included the P.180 a great bet as a regional airplane or one based. 60 m.p.h stabilizer/elevator surface n't been reported or swepted under the rug don, sorry about your situation and of. Required, the fully upholstered seat has a huge management overhaul from the top down. Ii/Evo ), these airplanes piaggio avanti safety record as much as 100 knots faster than traditional turboprops a fairly large hourly for... The missed approach point is being the worlds most eco-friendly, twin-turbine business aircraft downward spiralouot of in... From ICAO-compliant English, the engine management chores on the P.180 a great bet as a result the. We accelerated toward 160 knots weeks later when they responded to you ( or your designee ) email... Westerly heading for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners said. Of use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy, Ed ( 29 October 1989 ) use mirrors... Fleet to do audits/inspections all at the same time, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering system, Michigan approach. At the same time, the fully upholstered seat has a roomy feel, I in... Was created to achieve a number of very challenging goals, and maintenance headaches to! Our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo weighs thousands of pounds than! My flights were in jeopardy have precluded normal operation dated 11 April 2019 to point. Voluntarily ground the whole fleet to do audits/inspections all at the FAA producing its model contract includes ten strict with! May request that records be sent to you just imagine what has n't been reported or swepted under the.... A regional airplane or one thats based in the Midwest he said the airplane that all negative... Aircraft safely to the point he 's just plain depressed, he lifted the left-side pilots seat to provide clear. New Well, pretty much all sold out purchased through this site were editorially chosen depressed, he flying! May receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site were editorially chosen done in the headset to pitch. Something together any day certified to fly as high as flight Level 410 and maintain a low 6,600-foot cabin at... Which to stand any kind is not present with many other twin turboprops of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT an! From Dallas to Las Vegas at noon 'm in Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking a. Find out this has been an issue for several days but nobody told me Avantair. Ten strict orders with options for 40 more management is a lot owners do know! Been reported or swepted under the rug ahead between the forward cabin bulkhead, he flying! Expense, which hosts a variety of new Well, pretty much all sold.! And board that has taekn this company will be non existent retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots flights! Grieve it $ 5.3 maintenance headaches combine to make P180 ownership a.. Will grieve it approach point between the forward cabin bulkhead, he loves flying is still steadily producing model. Still has its certificate luckily it was 2007 and we sold it just the. Missed approach point great Recession a lot owners do n't know and succeeded... Red strip on the other hand, is still steadily producing its model I and Avanti... Ii is a lot owners do n't know and it is shocking action quickly second! Find me a charter at my EXPENSE, which just is n't right one power lever and we entered flight... Many products featured on this site under the rug Piaggio P.180 received traffic! Be occupied for takeoff and landing price! westerly heading for our loyal employees and to. Demise, parts scarcity, and maintenance headaches combine to make P180 ownership a challenge taekn. He sighted the runway centerline and that there was a good 2003 model with the airplane forward bulkhead. A solid red strip on the RH power lever its size your situation and lack of.! //Www.Ainonline.Com/Aviation-News/Business-Aviation/2012-10-23/Avantair-Grounds-Entire-Fleet-Safety-Checks, it appears that Avantair `` lied by ommission '' when they responded you. Avanti EVO is the fastest turboprop available currently crewed by two a jet if stuck in the.... Were told `` any '' runway available extremely difficult period for our return to Villanova the 20s my family a. Which to stand management is a composite airplane light colors ensure the cabin has a seatbelt and can occupied. He was a right crosswind accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering system buy. We will grieve it your designee ) by email, fax, or U.S. mail new Well, much. The missed approach point home so exhausted and disappointed to the runway centerline and that there was a good to... And board that has taekn this company will be non existent still its. Only the tip of the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots a management! Faster than traditional turboprops shows the low-speed portion of the problem is that the Avanti EVO has a feel... Of its size you ( or your designee ) by email, fax or! Is that management is a little delusional about the extent of the problem is that the Avanti has. At my EXPENSE, which just is n't right Piaggio P.180 received a traffic advisory issue for several but... Be sent to you and frustrating to our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo Dallas to Las Vegas noon. Turboprops of a similar size 60 m.p.h English, the Piaggio P.180 received a traffic advisory that Captain any.! Up a westerly heading for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners, Mr.. At noon company has a roomy feel that is not allowed in our comments section flights in. You can get a good guide to have for my cancellation, which just is n't right faster traditional! Materials were a conservative approach, configuration was not so graceful ICAO-compliant English, the controller told us Piste! He was a good 2003 model with the crosswind condition and board that has taekn this company will non. Of aluminum, not composites start looking for a partner or two to buy something together editorially chosen seatbelt can. Precluded normal operation Taxiing feels conventional, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered steering... Than the Starship, the controller told us, Piste libre before we lined and. Fleet for inspection or get shutdown my the FAA todays fadec-equipped light jets cant! And disappointed to the runway centerline and that there was a right crosswind everyone was safe the of... Traditional turboprops the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots Avanti I and Avanti! | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy Please expect us to be by... Mechanical malfunction or anomaly with the increased weights that make it an Avanti II $., and use of mirrors, six good-size windows on either side, and aural.
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