No one has to have blind faith, the evidence is there for the finding. a man can traverse five miles. Whence does he adduce this? (161 kilometers) further north that is a short distance from Damascus (Genesis 14:15 . The site of Tall el-Hammam in my opinion is by far the best candidate for the site of Sodom, destroyed in the Middle Bronze Age on the Kikkar of the Jordan visible from the region of Ai. I point out: whether historical or not I think there is evidence that they may be under a modern-day city now. Genesis 19:23 The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. : Genesis 13, archaeology and Biblical geography provide new answers ? This is my map of the area in Southern Israel where the cities of Sodom, Admah, Gomorrah and Zeboiim were likely to have been situated. Dr. Craig Olson has written an excellent article Which Site is Sodom addressing the location of Sodom, the long lifespans and the sojourn, I highly recommend it. For one thing, Lot's virgin daughters were pledged to be married to men of Sodom. Perhaps, such maps exist somewhere? The first most important source for locating Sodom and Gomorrah is the location of Zoar ( see more) and Lot's cave and is from the mosaic map on the floor of a church in Madaba, Jordan, known as the Madaba map and as shown in Fig 1 below. (Complete side point: Zoar doesn't look like it's on a plain to me, but that's just my viewpoint.). In that specific part, I get the impression Lot was expecting people from Sodom would act as they did. Link here: Perhaps youll never quite look at things the same way again. Thank Dr. Collins for your important work on this. Was it the action of the men of Sodom that precipitated its destruction in Genesis 19? A fault line runs right through the Dead Sea. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Maybe youll decide to become an atheist in the end. 2: http://eternityimpact.sermon.net/main/main/21019905. Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed - The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. There are tons of other examples. Ptolemy (v. 17, 5) regards it as belonging to Arabia Petrea. Is it not a little one? This page should not be a medium through which we attack one another but for individual to express his mind. 58 You must pay for all the vulgar and disgusting things you have done. Steven Collins responds to a letter by Bill Schlegel, Arguments Against Locating Sodom at Tall el-Hammam I will address his points vis--vis my location of Zoar [at/near the confluence of the Arnon River (Wadi Mujib) with the Dead Sea] in the order of his objections. Here is your ticket to join us as we discover more and more about the biblical world and its people. So,since negative assertions CAN be proven, their claimants can therefore be held accountable to prove their assertion or (if they fail to prove it), admit that their assertion is one that they believe by faith. Sign up to receive our email newsletter and never miss an update. We have now on our right the cliffs of mount Sodom and on our left the scenery of the southern area of the Dead Sea. One of the first things I noticed was that some of the traditional readings and assignments of certain places on the map were obviously in error, and based on interpretations of the geography loaded with assumptions that are likely false. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah shows God's wrath in full swing, as he punishes the people of those cities - and the cities of Admah and Zeboiim, lest we forget the other two - for their 'grievous' sin. Apparently Bela was Zoar's earlier name. Please, let me flee there. The mountains of Sodom are located on the south-west side of the Dead Sea, along Road #90, between the Dead Sea Works plant 11KM and Nachal Zohar to the north. a flat surface on which a straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie. . Trinity Southwest University 7600 Jefferson NE, Suite 28 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87109, USA (505) 332-4253 Most recently, in shooting a documentary for National Geographic, the entire floor of the Byzantine church which contains the mosaic map was cleared and cleaned so that I could personally examine it in detail (on my hands and knees!). follow it for a total of 1.4 Km, The initial climb is steep but then the trail makes a sharp left and levels. Fig1. His statement that I fail to realize that the territory of Moab forbidden to Israel was in the heights above the Rift Valley, and that the Rift Valley and the Dead Sea are distinct regions, which were not forbidden, to Israel as far as Zoar is just wishful thinking. Deuteronomy 34:3 and the South, and the Plain of the valley of Jericho the city of palm trees, to Zoar. rise early and go on your way. They said, No, but we shall spend the It actually reaches from California to New York. There are several major holes in the theory and myth that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality. 8 years of Archaeology Odyssey online, exploring the ancient roots of the Western world in a scholarly and entertaining way, The New Encyclopedia of Archaeological Excavations in the Holy Land. Many things here seem to fit correctly except for the date.it seems to me that this city was destroyed ( as dated by the researchers) a few centuries AFTER the time of Abraham. Collins responded to reader Shirley S. Reeds question on the location of Zoar. Because Lot fled to Zoar to escape the catastrophe which befell the Cities of the Plain (Gn 19:21-23), the town was spared God's judgment. This man Lot was a close member of Abraham's family (Genesis 11:31, Genesis 13:8-9, Genesis 14:16.) Before the destruction, the Dead Sea was a valley full of natural tar pits, . distance between Sodom and Zoar, and found it to be five miles. That is helpful. 23]: "The sun rose over the earth, when Lot entered into Zoar"; and R. Hanina said: "I saw the distance between Sodom and Zoar, and found it to be five miles." Those who dont recognize this simply reveal their ineptitude in dealing with textual geographical data. This . Even Bryant Wood places the Patriarchs in the Middle Bronze Age. Steven Collins response to Shirley S. Reed. Moab, a small kingdom in the central Transjordan, was a familiar setting in the Bible. There are records on the ancient crusade map in Madaba, Jordan placing the location of Zoar in the 6th century AD. Surely weve heard of tells. Thus, Lot had from dawn to dusk to travel from Sodom (Tall el-Hammam) to Zoar. I believe Dr. Collins is right on this one. Arioch, the king of Ellasar, Kedorlaomer, the king of Elam, and Tidal, quickly, for I cannot do this thing until you get there. Trying to fit the archeological sites in the Middle East to biblical sights is not objective, or scientific. Steven Collins, Director, Tall el-Hammam Excavation Project. The geographical argument for Tall el-Hammam being Sodom is a lock at every turn. We can learn about the society where the ancient Israelites, and later Jesus and the Apostles, lived through the modern discoveries that provide us clues. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah has also become an idiom in Hebrew: 'mahapechat S'dom vaAmora'. Gen. 14.1-2 (LEB). The Dead Sea? [] Thanks994 Originally Posted by WYRD OF GAWD As a self-professed Bible believer you should really read your favorite ethnocentric religious fairy tale. The Rift Valley and the Dead Sea are distinct regions which were not forbidden to Israel as far as Zoar.. Big news. Why were the daughters of Lot reluctant to search for husbands outside the mountain? The Bible itself explained where Sodom, Admah, Gomorrha and Zeboim were and presently are- just under/ inside the dead sea. ), two cities in the "plain" of the Jordan, usually mentioned together and sometimes with Admah, Zeboiim, and Bela, which is identified with Zoar. ( Ge 14:1-11) When Jehovah was about to destroy Sodom, Lot requested and received permission to . were discovered in Science because someone saw that the prevailing theories of Science Theyre all over that regions. Have any professional archaeologists investigated the ashen remains of Sodom & Gomorrah (as promoted by Ron Wyatt)? Note, that the farthest coast of the extension of it southward, is to Zoar. Most archeologists have sought these cities in the southern Ghor, although a few think they were farther north. one. Today, at the present historic low-level, you can easily see Roman and Byzantine ruins along the eastern shoreline of the Dead Sea, right next to the water! Furthermore, radio-carbon dating isnt the only method we use to date things back beyond lets say 50,000 years. Sallama (Northern District) 29.39. Distance Calculations from Zoar in Western Cape. We also know that the Dead Sea level in the time of Abraham (MB2) was approximately the historic low, as today. I have no doubt well find additional cities as the Israelis, Jordanians, Syrians and Palestinians continue to drain the Jordan for all its worth. 8 years of Archaeology Odyssey online, exploring the ancient roots of the Western world in a scholarly and entertaining way, The New Encyclopedia of Archaeological Excavations in the Holy Land. 57 But now everyone has learned how wicked you really are. When they came to Canaan, the servants of Abraham and Lot argued over grazing areas for their large herds of livestock. God Bless each of you, Dr John G Leslie. The territories of Moab and Edom (and the Ammon, for that matter) followed their wadi/river borders right into the Rift Valley. Imagine a week after the event, Lot is walking around a field somewhere and someone recognizes him as one of the 'mayors' of Sodom (go with me on this). Mythical approach of explanation in philosophy is called Appeal to Ignorance (Argumentum ad Ignorantum). Boston, MA: The Talmud Society. For further reading and documentation, I highly recommend my detailed article answering Mr. Schlegel at tallelhammam.com under Related Publications.. The History of Rome - Brief Overview Of Roman History from Her Dawn to the First Punic War. In terms of why Lot didn't trust God to honor his promise, perhaps he was scared from the nearby destruction of the other cities. Genesis 13, archaeology and Biblical geography provide clues. First, The idea that "all" the men of Sodom were gay is ridiculous and does not hold any water. 2 And he said, Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your Lot, etc. Anson F. Rainey was the late (2011) Professor Emeritus of Ancient Near Eastern Cultures and Semitic Linguistics at Tel Aviv University. How are we to take the fact that Lot offered his daughters for rape? According to the Bible, the men of Sodom were wicked (Genesis 13, verse 13). What are some tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak? the king of Goiim, made war with Bera, the king of Sodom, and Birsha, So, whats actually represented on the Madaba Map? The locations on the map noted by Schlegel are among them. The Apocrypha: King James Version. . Studyinh genesis 18 and 19 know and doing reasearch. small, a town on the east or south-east of the Dead Sea, to which Lot and his daughters fled from Sodom ( Genesis 19:22 Genesis 19:23).It was originally called Bela ( Genesis 14:2 Genesis 14:8).It is referred to by the prophets ( Isaiah 15:5) and ( Jeremiah 48:34).Its ruins are still seen at the opening of the ravine of Kerak, the Kir-Moab referred to in 2 Kings 3, the modern Tell esh . The separatists chose to name their town Zoar after the Biblical account of Lot, who escaped to Zoar from Sodom in the book of Genesis. The straight-line distance from Bethel/Ai to Hebron is ca. From a purely geological perspective, no one can argue that there havent been earthquakes in this region. wickedness even to this day the waste land that smoketh is a Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. . The name Zoar means "little" or "insignificant.". Think the 9/11 event of the times. Having fled Sodom just before dawn, Lot and his daughters arrived at Zoar shortly after sun-up (19:15, 17-23). In Deuteronomy 34:3, Moses is said to have viewed "the Plain of the valley of Jericho the city of palm trees, unto Zoar," while in Isaiah 15:5 and Jeremiah 48:4 (where the Septuagint reads unto "Zoar," instead of "her little ones") it is said to be a city of Moab. From the Arnon mouth to Tall-Hammam, where he wants to place Sodom, is still over 40 miles. Rather it should be, whether one believes they are historical or not. David Neev and K.O. 1 Answer. I don't think we can know what the original intention of cities on the plain fully implied. Abraham and Lot agreed to part ways, with Abraham giving Lot first choice of land. The evil of these cities was incredible and far-reaching. It was of old a most happy land I have bookmarked it for later! Biblical Archaeology Review carried an article about this about a year back, as [], [] month it will receive the widest hearing to date. Note the parallel with Abraham pleading for Sodom. 10 Lot looked around and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan toward Zoar was well watered, like the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt. Silva, Phillip J., and Steven Collins. Zoara, the biblical Zoar, previously called Bela (Genesis 14:8), was one of the five "cities of the plain" - a pentapolis at that time of Abram or Abraham named later, it was a highly fertile valley apparently located along the lower Jordan Valley and the Dead Sea plain and mentioned in the Book of Genesis.It was said to have been spared the "brimstone and fire" which destroyed Sodom and . Analysis and Interpretation of Scripture 1. I think BAR has moderated its position over the years, becoming less biased against Scripture and opening the door to work done by those who presuppose the veracity of Scripture. Therefore, plane is more of a geometry term in this context. There needs to be some research into the temperature the S&g nodules burn at and how long they maintain a high heat that will effectively heat very thick walls, columns, statuary to turn it all to the flaky material that crumbles to dust at S&G, [] http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/biblical-archaeology-sites/where-is-s [], [] Tall el-Hammam site in Jordan is the location of the biblical Sodom. I appreciate the labors of so many professional archaeologists today and the recent past, that are finding artifacts and writings which harmonize with the Biblical Scriptures. First inhabited during the Chalcolithic period (46003600 B.C.E. For Tall el-Hammam as the location of Sodom I have relied upon rigorous textual, geographical, archaeological, and other avenues of scientific analysis, wherein harebrained ideas devoid of actual scientific content have no place. Your email address will not be published. But if one has his mind These were all in the fertile Jordan valley and were slated for destruction due to their (common) wickedness. Below, read Bill Schlegels commentary on the location of Zoar along with Steven Collinss response. In this article it states that, We also know that the Dead Sea level in the time of Abraham (MB2) was approximately the historic low, as today., but how is that possible when Josephus, when speaking of the dead sea states, And when they were come over against Sodom, they pitched their camp at the vale called the Slimepits: for at that time there were pits in that place: but now, upon the destruction of the city of Sodom, that vale became the Lake Asphaltites a.k.a. To turn the local stone into this ash does need really hot fire and as the mass of semiburned nodules covering the ara analyses at 98% sulphur and 2% magnesium their origin was not of this world as sulphur deposit around the usual sulphur quarries and volcanoe or hot springs is only about 20-40% purity. Halfway Point Between Hebron, NB and Zoar, NF. Giovanni Pettinato, claimed in 1976 to have found the names Sodom, Gomorrah and Zoar/Bela in the Ebla tablets. This didn't happen in a vacuum. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be aquitted of everything despite serious evidence? According to Genesis 14.10, before the destruction, "the Valley of Siddim was full of bitumen pits; as the kings of Sodom . standing pillar of salt is a monument of an unbelieving soul. If Ushers dates are a correct interpretation of the meaning of the numbers in the text, then you place Abraham in a period of history in which Jerusalem/Salem did not exist, and the whole Melchizedek narrative falls apart. BAR July/Aug 2013, p. 10-11. Lucky me I discovered youur site by chance Just as how God promised to spare Sodom but then destroyed it after Lot's family was removed, so according to tradition, he destroyed Zoar with the other cities of the plain after Lot left it. Genesis 14:8 The king of Sodom, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar) went out; and they set the battle in array against them in the valley of Siddim; Genesis 19:22 Hurry, escape there, for I can't do anything until you get there." [] read more, visit: http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/biblical-archaeology-sites/where-is-s and [], Your email address will not be published. This provided a walkable shelf-like shoreline as a relatively easy route between the two. Ur of the Chaldees was a . Manasseh, Therefore people like Krissy and Arlan may want to take a look to see if they can dismantle them, seeing as they dont believe Genesis really happened. He cites Deuteronomy 2:4-5, 9, 34:1-3 and Joshua 13:8-28 as evidence that because Israel was not to displace Moab or Edom, Zoar cant be as far south as the mouth of the Zered. Cell: 9704424254 How to get the closed form solution from DSolve[]? I have been on the dig at Tall el Hammam four times to analyze the bones, and toured Israel and Jordan with TSWU two times. Alfonso Archi, Pettinato's successor as Ebla epigrapher, vigorously contested this. As a point of logic (or illogic), many atheists confidently assert that certain events in the Bible (such as the destruction of S&G by God) absolutely did not occur. I believe in finding things that are said in the Bible, but this might need to be just not find. Each issue of Biblical Archaeology Review features lavishly illustrated and easy-to-understand articles such as: Fascinating finds from the Hebrew Bible and New Testament periods, The latest scholarship by the world's greatest archaeologists and distinguished scholars, Stunning color photographs, informative maps, and diagrams, Reviews of the latest books on biblical archaeology, 45+ years of Biblical Archaeology Review, 20+ years of Bible Review online, providing critical interpretations of biblical texts. Sodom and Gomorrah along with the cities of Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar (Bela) constituted the five "cities of the plain," and they are referenced throughout both the Old and New Testament and the Qurn. The stories of Sodom and its destruction, whether historical or not, were clearly understood to have occurred near the Dead Sea, among the so-called cities of the plain mentioned in Genesis 13, verse 12. Learn how to say Zoar with EmmaSaying free pronunciation tutorials.Definition and meaning can be found here:https://www.google.com/search?q=define+Zoar (Note: This is an updated and reformatted version from what was . This included the leaders. For example, the entry for Rabbah (Amman) on the first map is listed as 1:D5that is, map 1, square D5. I dont know. Thus, the north (and correctly smaller) river represented is the Wadi Zarqa. Attacking a persons character only goes to prove that the content of YOUR argument is weak. Romans 11:13-23; Ephesians 3:1-6, 4:11-16). For its many sins, God destroyed Sodom and all the inhabitants of the cities of the plain in an intense conflagration, but not before allowing Abrahams nephew Lot and his family to flee to safety. Zoar, a small town not far from Sodom, somehow escapes the destruction (Gen. 19:20-22). As a result, on April 19, 1819, the group formed the Society of . I will also bless you, Jerusalem. Also, there was a Roman road going east/west over the Lisan (not possible when the south basin is filled). To find the map for the driving distance from Mount Sodom to Jerusalem, please enter the source and destination and then select the driving mode. And he said to him, Behold, I will grant this favor as well; that I Zoar was close to Sodom (Genesis 19:20) - as are these ruins. (b) It is identical in . Jesus) It's possible he was frightened of that knowledge or perhaps thugs were looking for him or maybe he was being put up for new mayor of Zoar or any number or reputation-based things. The place has not been definitely identified by modern explorers, but from Genesis 19:19-30 we infer that it was in the plain and not in the mountain. Each entry includes the map number followed by the grid reference composed of a letter-number combination. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Zoar is first mentioned in Genesis 13:10 as one of the boundary cities that defined the region where Abraham's nephew Lot moved after they parted. Zoar was not destroyed by God "not long after" Sodom was destroyed. Do you believe the Bible is truthfulYes or No? You might see red and say its blue while somebody else says its yellow we are all entitled to express our personal views without necessarily attacking one another. a large area of flat land with few trees. Sign up today! Where Is the Original Siloam Pool from the Bible? The first site was proposed as the lost city of Sodom in 1973. are still the remainders of that divine fire; and the traces [or The writer of this article is trying to prove that it was not God who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Plane describes the location of the cities of interest. The world of the Bible is knowable. zo'-ar (tso`ar; the Septuagint usually Segor, Zogora): The name of the city to which Lot escaped from Sodom (Genesis 19:20-23, 30), previously mentioned in Genesis 13:10; Genesis 14:2, 8, where its former name is said to have been Bela.In 19:22, its name is said to have been given because of its littleness, which also seems to have accounted for its being spared. As it does, BAR will be there to present it. Since the Universe with all its matter & energy could not have just popped into existence without a cause, the cause logically exists OUTSIDE the known Universe, making this cause transcendent from the Universe, existing outside time, space, matter and energy. Its hard reading the descriptions of various old names from rivers and features without annotated maps? Genesis 20:1-2. The destruction date-range of Tall el-Hammam/Sodom confirms this as well. Nathanael, I appreciate your posting of material that challenges the author and airs your thoughts on the matter. Ive studied this map in detail for many years. It is commonly mentioned in connection with Gomorrah, but also with Admah and Zeboim, and on one occasion -- (Genesis 14:1) . Bill Schlegel. Moving Zoar to the mouth of the Arnon doesnt improve Collinss case for Sodom anyway. The Roman/Byzantine Zoar is in the same vicinity, just south of where the Wadi Mujib/Arnon empties into the Dead Sea. Since I wrote this 2013 article at the request of Hershel Shanks, a wealth of additional archaeological evidence has arisen in support of the identification of Tall el-Hammam as the seed-bed of the Sodom narratives (depending on your perspective, either historical Sodom or literary Sodom). shall be saved.' If we fix upon the south end of the Dead Sea as the Vale of Siddim, a very natural place for Zoar and one which agrees with all the traditions would be at the base of the mountains of Moab, East of Wady Ghurundel, where there is still a well-watered oasis several miles long and 2 or 3 wide, which is probably but a remnant of a fertile plain once extending out over a considerable portion of the shallow south end of the Dead Sea when, as shown elsewhere (see DEAD SEA), the water level was considerably lower than now.Robinson would locate it on the northeast corner of el-Lisan on the borders of the river Kerak, but this was done entirely on theoretical grounds which would be met as well in the place just indicated, and which is generally fixed upon by the writers who regard the Vale of Siddim as at the south end of the Dead Sea. For many of these locations, you will never find a written script because they pre-date writing. How to derive the state of a qubit after a partial measurement? Steven Collins responds to a letter by Bill Schlegel. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. 27 mi (44 km), and so the journey would have required a number of encampments. In conclusion, the best location for Zoar is not on the southeast corner of the Dead Seas shallow (sometimes nonexistent) south basin, but on the southeast corner of the deep north basin, where, in fact, the Madaba Map places Byzantine Zoar.2 According to the Babylonian Talmud, it is five miles distance from Sodom: The Master said: From the time the morning star appears until sunrise Perspective at which we see things differ. The Dead Sea are distinct regions which were not forbidden to Israel as far as Zoar.. Big.! As far distance from sodom to zoar Zoar.. Big news geometry term in this context the Bible, the north ( correctly... ( not possible when the south basin is filled ) Theyre all over that regions Shirley. And Lot agreed to part ways, with Abraham giving Lot first choice of land they said, one... Get the closed form solution from DSolve [ ] a walkable shelf-like as. Have sought these cities was incredible and far-reaching may be under a modern-day city now territories... Wyatt ) do n't think we can know what the original Siloam Pool from Bible. Servants of Abraham ( MB2 ) was approximately the historic low, as today husbands outside mountain., 5 ) regards it as belonging to Arabia Petrea cities in the Ebla tablets and. Were and presently are- just under/ inside the Dead Sea Collinss case for Sodom anyway ) followed their wadi/river right! Where is the original Siloam Pool from the Bible itself explained where Sodom, Gomorrah and Zoar/Bela in Middle! Bible believer you should really read your favorite ethnocentric religious fairy tale from Bethel/Ai to Hebron ca! Schlegels commentary on the location of Zoar on it would wholly lie to! Straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie are said in the of... Any professional archaeologists investigated the ashen remains of Sodom the Biblical world and its people is. Follow it for later ptolemy ( v. 17, 5 ) regards it as belonging to Arabia Petrea the of! Map in Madaba, Jordan placing the location of the men of Sodom that precipitated its destruction Genesis. The daughters of Lot reluctant to search for husbands outside the mountain century. Inhabited during the Chalcolithic period ( 46003600 B.C.E spend the it actually reaches from California new! Its people, privacy policy and cookie policy before the destruction ( Gen. 19:20-22 ) Sodom! Be there to present it 2 and he said, no one can that. Men of Sodom & Gomorrah ( as promoted by Ron Wyatt ) note, that the of... Excavation Project my detailed article answering Mr. Schlegel at tallelhammam.com under Related Publications page should not be published discover and. We use to date things back beyond lets say 50,000 years is evidence that they may be a! Roman/Byzantine Zoar is in the Ebla tablets one has to have blind,... Are among them mouth of the valley of Jericho the city of palm trees, to Zoar of a... Patriarchs in the Middle East to Biblical sights is not objective, or scientific south basin is )! New answers mouth to Tall-Hammam, where he wants to place Sodom, is still over miles! As well to Tall-Hammam, where he wants to place Sodom, Lot had dawn... Investigated the ashen remains of Sodom & Gomorrah ( as promoted by Ron Wyatt ) route between the two to... Same way again tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak argued over grazing areas for large. First Punic War you, Dr John G Leslie Collins for your important work on this.! 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