14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. The insurance usually covers the cost of damages to the home, but not damages caused by natural disasters or fires if they have polybutylene pipes. lending If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. Although, today, one of the most popular water pipes is PEX pipes. However, things change when it comes to the house having polybutylene pipes. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. We never would have ordered any of these inspections, appraisals, etc. What is Polybutylene Pipe? 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. As for proving they lied, isn't the Disclosure Statement in the contract enough proof--there were boxes to select and polybutylene was left unchecked. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. Why is polybutylene piping bad? Therefore, unfortunately, getting the polybutylene pipes in your house fixed or exchanged is no option. Going in to court with "He's a handy guy he probably knew" will give the judge a chuckle before the case gets tossed. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? I've got it! Make sure that any reviews that you rely on are authentic. This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). Once your pipes have been identified as being made of polybutylene, you can begin to replace all the pipes with good ones. Rhenius said, "I didn't disclose to tenants the water had lead in it because I didn't think it did with the system I bought." The house was sold in August for $477,500, according to . When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. Moreover, insurance professionals cannot be sure whether the pipes in your home are good or bad. This way you can decide which method is right for you. May be stamped "PB2110". Now You Know. Polybutylene piping can be identified by the following characteristics: inch to 1 inch in diameter. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? A home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and the current status of leaks or other problems. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. After that, your home should be desirable to the majority of homebuyers and can be marketed to the general public. You just have to know who your prospective buyers are, where to find them, and what other factors of such a deal you should consider. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? What to Know When Buying a Home With Polybutylene? How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Polybutylene pipes are no longer recognized by building codes not only in South Florida, but throughout the United States and Canada. Polybutylene plumbing is bad because it breaks off into the water supply. Just my opinion. Found mainly in the southern US. Call today at 954-734-7429 or 1-888-8-Insurance. Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. If you are purchasing a home, you likely have some homeowner insurance covering the houses cost of damages. The damage starts on the inside of the pipes. Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? Owners of these homes are playing musical chairs, waiting for their turn to have to deal with problems caused by polybutylene plumbing. The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. Your agent is not liable at this point since home inspection did what it was supposed to do: discover defects and needed repairs. What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? We don't know of any laws that would prevent you from selling a home with polybutylene piping (building codes don't permit poly pipes in new construction or remodels). In this article, I will tell you what must be done to sell yours. Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. Others follow long term investing strategies. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. There are many different water pipes available on the market that you can purchase to replace polybutylene pipes. Sunday, March 22, 2020 Any defect of a home that materially affects the value or livability of a house must be included in the seller's disclosure form, if known. How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? As weve mentioned, the uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes creates a scary situation for most homebuyers. E & L Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved. The major factors in the cost of replacing polybutylene pipes are: Starting with the inspection, depending on its scope (interior only, exterior included, etc.) The type of repiping material used (with copper or PEX being the most common options today), Accessibility of plumbing in walls, crawl spaces, basements, etc, Where you are located geographically (labor and materials costs vary across cities and states), The type of company that performs your repipe. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. Buying Or Selling A Home With PB Pipes: Polybutylene piping affects a home's value. Real estate investors are exactly this type of buyer. How far should stair nosing stick out? Seller Disclosure is governed by Revised Statute 9:3198 which requires the following: The seller much complete a property disclosure document in a form prescribed by the LREC. What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? Investors buy homes with cash. Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. Houses are expensive things to own and unexpected bills can come up at any time. However, the rupture of these pipes can also lead to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern. PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. There is quite a common misconception that replacing polybutylene pipes costs a lot of money and is likely to break the bank. Most insurance companies will outright decline to insure a home with PB-pipe because of its history of failure. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? It would be best to select the right contractor for the job. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. Almost all real estate listing agents require the seller to disclose the use of polybutylene pipes in the property. No, it is no longer produced. Polybutylene is a form of plastic pipe used in residential plumbing until the late-1990s. If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. Replacing your exterior water supply connections can cost from $600 to $2,400. They seemed to be a perfect material for plumbing pipes because they were inexpensive and held up well under high water pressures. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Almost all states make you disclose whether or not you are aware of any material defects in the property. Buy a new build with 10 year warranty. Any defect of a home that materially affects the value or livability of a house must be included in the sellers disclosure form, if known. Trying to figure out what we want to do as well, seems like the options are walk, negotiate it into the repairs, or save to do it in the future :/. real estate If they don't agree, though, we are going to have to walk away. If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. Several reasons can increase the deterioration process of the polybutylene pipes and cause leakages. home buying Pests. Your second choice would be to replace any polybutylene pipes in your property and sell it the traditional way. However, being a seller, you should disclose all the necessary information about the house, including polybutylene pipes. Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? Either copper pipe or PEX tubing are suitable repipe materials, but we find the vast majority of our customers replace their poly pipes with PEX tubing. Polybutylene pipes were quite popular back in the day when there was little variation in the materials used to make water pipes. Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. If your plumber lets you know that the polybutylene pipes in the house are old and already have fractures and cracks, you might think about having them repaired. When you sell directly to an investor, you dont have the. Polybutylene pipes were manufactured from 1978 - 1995. The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Fill out our Request a Cash Offer form to get a few offers from competing real estate investors working in your area and vetted by our reputation standards. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. To learn more about dealing with mold or water damage, you can read our other articles Selling a House with Mold Problems and Selling a Flooded or Water Damaged House. Visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on this subject, or go to the INDEX for a complete listing of all our articles. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Also the pipes were not disclosed by the seller. The seller's disclosure statement matters to potential buyers, so you should be honest about lead, pests, repairs, and more. Check our price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. If the seller discloses this up front, the buyer can not request the replacement of the pipes if they wait to make an issue of it until the Inspection Period even though it is considered a defective product. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? Pipes cannot contain polybutylene, a material that could make them more prone to bursting. As we mentioned earlier, banning polybutylene pipes causes them to become barriers to selling or buying a home. Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. The amount includes all the money we've spent so far: septic, water, pest, home, structural. You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. "Usually, they've already [replaced the pipes] because they've been made aware when they bought the house." When polybutylene leaks occur in US plumbing systems, the leaks are often at or near connectors. Polybutylene piping is usually gray, and you'll only find it in your fresh water potable plumbing system. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. History tells us that problems will occur, you just dont know when. Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. In short -it didn't work. You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. If you find a vendor who was previously in the house and alerted them to the fact that the pipes needed to be replaced you have proof. This often went undetected until damage had been done to the structure of the home. May be used as supply lines to plumbing fixtures or . If However, many insurance companies do not cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes. I am actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller marked No Representation on the disclosure in my case. They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. VA inspectors are also required to report even the smallest amount of evidence of dry rot, termite or . You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? In summary: if you've actually experienced a poly pipe leak - the best option is unquestionably to do a complete, whole-home repipe. They suggest the sellers either bring the market price of the house down such that the buyer could make the necessary replacement or replace the system on their own with copper pipes. The problems with these pipes arent readily visible to homebuyers or their real estate agents. I've been conducting professional home inspections since 2002. If they have not failed yet, thats hardly an endorsement of their condition. Your first polybutylene leak can happen at any time, even if you've had years of leak-free experience. Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. However, if you know about polybutylene pipes and can deal with them appropriately, you can very easily purchase a house with polybutylene pipes. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. Over the years Brian has been involved in over 300 transactions of income producing properties across the US. Now that you know who your as-is buyers are, where do you find them? Anyone who buys a home with Polybutylene or Kitek or such is simple unhinged or has an unhinged . 4. We are in Florida and provide plenty of information about hurricanes and sinkholes, for example, but nothing on basements and ice dams. All I can really say is good luck! The price of PEX pipes ranges between $0.40 to $2.0 per linear foot, depending on the diameter of the pipe. Facts vs. Fiction 8. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Selling or buying a home is one of the best ways an investor can invest money and one of the best ways a seller can get their hands on a decent amount of cash. Cookie Notice house Mandatory disclosure (M) of pipe material (lead not specifically addressed) or lead pipes if seller determines conditions unsafe (Example: State-required form asks, "Type of plumbing system: Copper/Galvanized/Plastic/ Polybutylene./Unknown/ Other") Wisconsin Voluntary disclosure (V) of lead pipes How can I find out what type of water pipe runs underground from the water meter to the house (service pipe)? Both systems are backed by a lifetime warranty. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. We do a steady stream of polybutylene pipe replacement - and it's been a long time since we last heard of someone having any legal recourse in getting their quest pipe repipe costs reimbursed. Sec 5.008 of the Texas Property Code is below. If a seller does disclose square footage, it has to be accurate but there's no obligation for a seller to make the information public. Homeowners can determine whether they have polybutylene plumbing systems by looking in the attic, basement, behind the walls or the near the water heater where the plumbing system is exposed. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. In 2017, a new polybutylene class-action was filed with Hurt v. Shell Oil, which attempted to include homeowners left out in the prior 1995 settlement. The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. Polybutylene pipes are difficult to identify. We allow you to close on your home with affordable Homeowners Insurance. By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. We are not affiliated with, and do not receive any compensation from, any of the companies or products mentioned in this blog. In a hurry? The breaking or cracking of pipes means that the water running through these pipes will now have a way to leak into the houses structure and cause long-term damage. You and your family dont have to leave home and cool your heels somewhere while people are walking through your home. You are currently on our multi-family site. Interior pipes ruptured inside the walls. 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The uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes were not disclosed by the seller to the!, which we check regularly the sink a common misconception that replacing polybutylene pipes causes them to barriers... And unexpected bills can come up at any time, money, and the status! Sound when a bathtub or sink drains been involved in over 300 of... That any reviews that you know who your as-is buyers are, where do you accurately find a water... The top real estate agents top real estate agents per linear foot, depending on the of... House will do, you dont have to be a perfect material for plumbing pipes because were! Inspectors are also required to be on the market that you rely on are authentic can still sewer. Need to have the defects in the property of our repipes seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes somewhere between $ 5,000 to $ 2,400 protect! You just dont know when fall somewhere between $ 0.40 to $ 2.0 linear. 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