Maybe not the best nor accurate but nonetheless tongue in cheek. Obviously you will probably disagree. by Dr. Hank Lindstrom explaining the simple Gospel and how you can be I seem to recall that someone paid Google to make the top search for the current POTUS a Bush is an idiot site for well over a month. It was very gracious of you to paint Dr. White as an Islamic fundamentalist. Therehappy? Charitably, please. Because I dont really think its worth the time. Thats CareBears very first sentence on this thread. I mean he basically says that the only reason the Church doesnt kill their opponents today is because it doesnt have a strong political stronghold, implying that the church would murder if it did. So I hurried back to the spot where Alypius was sitting, for I had put there a the volume of the aspostle when I got up and left him. Both the symbols are beautifully interlinked, but can still be differentiated quite easily. James R. White is on Facebook. As I mentioned on this thread and on the Amazing. If strong language to rebuke a sinner is uncharitable, we have a little problem here. LXX: lessens any people. God knows the true Canon (he knows what he wrote). In other words, he owns up to his mistakes. Feel free to uncharitably construe my words in the worst possible light Johnathan. For instance, at times White comes across as sarcastic or arrogant when writing online but i think that is not a true indicator of his character. If he says pay the taxes, he has denied God, if he says dont pay the taxes, Caesar will see him as a traitor to Rome. Thats all well and good, but the artist who changed the picture changed the story in so doing. Jeremiah gee, the Angelwing Consperacy mustve hacked into Mr. Whites site and posted the pictures. It hurt my feelings. I dont think youll find a Catholic in the world whod defend that assertion. Thats a great question! Glorious Lord. We can natter on about category errors and suchlike, all the while stating what a fitting comparison the individual in question made. Claim your healingTell your doctor that As I have asserted before, I doubt few here have actually ever litened to a White debate. Tech Organization:to attn. I assume you wouldnt try discussing theology with somebody wearing a Marilyn Manson Antichrist T-shirt. Esau, Also, I think White could be justified in theory for running the pictures he did if, in fact, the Catholics who pleaded for his charity did so in a way that was frightening or threatening. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. It would be accepted in almost any peer-reviewed humor journal (with modifications for academease). . Acts 4:10-12 Im not sure what you think participation in the Hypostatic union gets you except the opportunity to use big impressive sounding theological terms. I just cant believe people here arent just ignoring you. You are not in a position to offer any sort of informed criticism. [4], White graduated with a BA from Grand Canyon University (formerly known as Grand Canyon College) and an MA from Fuller Theological Seminary. 1. What I am saying is that if a person thought it was somehow funny to use them, and responded belligerently when told that constitutes poor judgment, I certainly wouldnt try to discuss the finer points of race relations with him. 3. Or so it seems, from the various wails here.. Steve: Esau is the one with the consiracy theories. I really am asking, seriously, how do Protestants make these determinations. I asked you for a specific example of when you felt that Jimmy misdirected people. There were the great prophets Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung men so far above the human race that they might as well be exalted as gods. Churchmouse has finally revealed THE FINAL ACT as seen in her latest comments above! By noting them it is hard not to characterize them in some fashion. just further proves my point. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM. Of course we hold these truths to be self-evident! The third is that both have slung mud. And the analogy fails as a factual matterIslamic understanding of Quranic inspiration is of a wholly different order than even the most rigorous Christian understanding. The counterpart is stunned silent at first. No, you did that. Seriously, though, all of this is the face of [denominational] apologetics to me. Akin & Co. still had some more feeding to do. heresy as not believing in repentance is ignorant. It is DECEPTION! It is not a *relationship*. Had we more folks like you, then perhaps we could live together as brethren in the Faith rather than the viscious venom you find in the age-old prejudice: Prots v. Romanists. Amazing-ly repugnant and dispicable, that is! Considering that seven months ago, Beckwith deserved his respect, the quotes seem, well, inappropriate and uncharitable. Thank you Dale BRAIN IMPLODING. from Columbia Evangelical Seminary (formerly Faraston Seminary). I think Jimmy Akin is a brilliant thinker and he can articulate deep and c omplicated subjects in a way that even I can understand. As Zack was pastoring in the summer 2012, he was awakened to the abortion holocaust and has never been the same since. [4] Early life and education My identity is bound up with Christ and the people of Christ, whoever they are, wherever they may be found, not in some dead hierarchy. Matthew Siekierski: He cites from patristic sources regularly. I share it. of Mapname.com customer 3 500 posts and still no one has interacted with Dr. Whites assertions. I got too acerbic for anyones good. Luke and his wife of over seventeen years, Cheryl, have two daughters Evangeline Grace and Eliana Faith. Please provide evidence. Apologies for not being clearer in my statement earlier. ie urging one another to fully live the gospel in every aspect of our life. This is a rather convient way to win a debate without ever having to defend a word you say. James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Donate The wholly holy get the better seats well let me just say, your doing fine in that department already. Every word they said, every thing they touched, was holy; their bodies had to be preserved and filed past in reverential silence. the Catholic Church is, I believe, truly Christs Church call me Fox like Esau has. And I would not analogize it to Rome, but for the lessons of a well documented history, connecting clearly the dots between sacral thinking and the eventual death and destruction such thinking begets. Yes, we must forgive people for calling James White an ignorant moronic idiot, deceiver, liar, fool, troll, stupid, just a general loser. Look at the 08/08/2007 entry in Dr. Whites blog here: http://www.aomin.org Well, lets seeby awarding him a casuistry degree, you are accusing him of specious reasoning. The vitriol and sarcasm tossed around the net these days is rather sad. CareBear, *we dont care* what insanity you want to bring out. Aug. 10, 6:22 pm judgment by virtue of his humor on some of the blogging Catholics who have contacted him about what they perceive as a lack of charity (and his humor is doing this or could be taken Pope St Pius X pray for us! Might be time for some kind of update to these. Guess that makes you a part of the mob. You probably think this post is about you Carebear, 2 Corinthians 10:17&18 To the extent that I have been overbearing, I apologize. Registrant Country:US So you respond. Christ sent them forth to teach His doctrines, saying, As the Father has sent me, I also send you. (John 20:21) Kind of like Aikido, if someone does not throw a punch, you really cannot do anything. James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected. While going over Calvins rebuttal of Sadoletos letter from 1539, I read a paragraph where Calvin held Sadoletos argument to a biblical standard. and a D.M. As his brothers in Christ, we have a higher calling than Cain. Dont use this as a cheap debate tactic to aviod the real issues. They are, at the very least, in poor taste, intended to hurt. That happens and that is ok. And that, having ordained what is Holy Scripture, God will not allow us to misunderstand it. bill912, http://aomin.org/index.php?itemid=2185&catid=7, courtesy Philip Pullmans interview with Third Way Magazine, http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap050200.htm, http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/08/amazing-simply-.html, http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/08/james-white-has.html#c79351988, http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2004/10/forgiveness_rev.html, http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0309bt.asp. IMHO. For example, one may be saved as a Baptist, but not as a Bahai (spelling error wantonly ignored) because the religion denies the divinity of Christ. Actually, could you provide the title of the book??? The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins: If however you have been reading this blog as long as I have you will know that neither Jimmy nor many of the regular combox contributors are ones to shy away from real meaningful debate on these meaningful subjects. That is in plain English. Sorry, Mary. CareBear: No, not required if you dont want your sins forgiven. Also, Im not entirely convinced you know what a category error is. This thread has been painful reading. I am not sure. Please explain what you mean by And, every Christian, by definition of them being a Christian, would admit to being a liar. Does Jimmys come with the white cowboy hat? I thought Roman Catholicism had better answers to offer than that. Its not squabbling. That cost a good deal more than this little stunt. I think he just lost a lot of people. I do think you have a point. Friends, Designs like this look very chic and are most commonly opted for by women. Therehappy? Ecce sockpuppet. These folks who have deviously perpetrated the entire affair here are a DISGRACE to Protestants!!! I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? He did not so admit. He apparently typed it into the form after having paid money from his wallet with deliberate intent that it would forward to that address. Any further discussion will have to wait as Im heading to bed soon. No one less pure, less true, less kind, less noble for having been a fellow traveler in our journey toward eternal life. ~from Learning Christ. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:22:53 PM 2) While said random posters include those with a less-than-charitable bend (and I make no excuses for them). Or maybe its just a game. That authority has been passed down through Apostolic succession. (Fellow Catholics, if I, in any way misrepresent the teachings of Christ or the Church, feel free to correct me. to polarize and rally support. Covered a bunch of topics suggested by social media interactions, including a discussion of special and general revelation, natural theology, and all that area of discussion, and then a brief look at Thomistic inseparable operations and its (unnecessary) complication of the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. I cant believe I trawled this com box on a sunny Saturday afternoon, but it wasnt all dank and darkness. 177. Please feel free to visit me at The Porters Lodge. Please post prayers for him there, keeping in mind that the thread is for prayers only. Enoch Seeing as how this does kind of touch on Jimmys day job, and since I vaguely remembered a prior post, I used the search option and found that Mr. Akin had, indeed, already covered this most recent argument: Bravo. Important point. Im not to apt to jump on the conspiracy train as you are. We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (there, he means Catholics); that they possess the Word of God which we received from them. Given that this wasnt what I said, I dont care about your opinion of it. CareBear says by Dr. Hank Lindstrom, Here are some Missed Vances post before I got out the door. White is using a sort of vanTilian presuppositionalist declaration to make his case. With fearful knowledge that Jesus our Lord shall judge my poor imitation of Christ in this and all my doings, I nevertheless remain your servant and brother in Christ, Bible versions are, Westcott and //So no one should respond to Hittchens or Dawkins because they are sometimes offensive? His disciples were empowered. CareBear, I would like to ask anyone who claims that the Roman Catholic Church, as it exists today, has existed for nearly 2000 years, to explain something to me. Yet, where is the logic in his argument: It just goes to demonstrate how INEXCUSABLE someone elses claims were! Theo. Briefly commented on the We had a technical problem at the start but managed to get in a full hour on the road once again, this time from West Texas. Which is practically the exact same argument atheists make when confronted with the fact that atheist states can be nasty. Ill bite A quote for the ages. If you want a tattoo depicting both these Greek letters, then please read through this article. Good question, Esau. JAMES GALLERY. Lisa, I wasnt saying anything more than if you say (i.e. Blog By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? Very few are actually about the pictures. Perhaps Jimmy shouldnt just cut off conversation. I have a great deal of sympathy for the notion that Guardian feels that he needs months to give any sort of response that isnt going to be called an unsubstantiated attack on Whites character. Simply Amazing. thread on this blog, merely pretending that they didnt know about it, asking so innocently why such a website existed with the purpose of sending its visitors to Catholic Answers. 3) James White always proclaims victory in debate even when he clearly is not the victor. Really Esau? Seriously, folks, ignore the Trademarked toy. It started with the Creation, continues to the Garden of Eden with its Tree of Knowledge, the flood, the Ark of the Covenant, Sodom and Gomorra, the Paschal lamb, the kingship of David, the bronze serpent, the bones of Elisha, the mud and spit used by Christ, Christs shadow, Christs very body and blood, the Apostles, the Church, the tribulations, the seals broken in Heaven, the water, the fire, the war between good and evil, and the marriage between Christ and His Church. Pot; meet Mr Kettle. Though, I guess an alternate motive might be to, just get the information out there so people can make an informed unbiased judgment for themselves. Now; As far as Dr Beckwith having some moral superiority over Dr White on the issue of Charity: I think he lost that the minute he started impugning Dr Whites character and motives. Either way, to go on like you do about Roman Catholics being compared to terrorists is fallacious, as has been illustrated and, regardless of your inability to accept the truth, be it intentional of unintentional, it is wrong for you (and Jimmy Akin) to continue purporting such a thing until you can successfully defend your assertion without presuming those things I outlined. However you: Say what you like but JW is an amazing man. Ive yet to hear James White claim that he DIDNT post those pictures. The numerous innuendos .and other non-substantive attacks on White posted here and elsewhere do not reflect an effort to love, only to discredit. Respond even stronger? One does not do a stand-up comedy routine to a group of nuns where one dirty joke is told after another and expect it to be perceived as funny. 14 That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive. which promote a false understanding of what it Biblically means to repent. The answer to your/Whites laundry list is in the Church Fathers, but off the top of my head, I couldnt give you a specific reference. Again, instead of focusing on this trent fiasco why doent Jimmy Akin (since he probably is better equiped at dealing with issues white, some of the ones i mentioned in my post above.) By accepting Whites actions as the just due that is neither just nor due (unless you truly understand Gods intentions here), we rise above the muck and elicit the surprise of every mudskipper and bottom-dweller that never could. Then James White shows up. but thats just my opinion Perhaps you should take the plunge too Esau. . *wonders how long it will take before the latter part of the charity sign is exercised on himself*. Jesus, Or is it only acceptable for James White to do that??? but immediately returns to his rants But I didnt ignore the thrust of the argument. In that respect, StubbleSpark, I appreciate your adventurous thinking, though it seems to me that we do need some lumps to go with our cake. That is the data I have used for analysis, nothing more. Actually, Id be obliged if you could think of a third option? If people had stuck to the topic, there would not be nearly 700 mostly off-topic posts (what is this, Slashdot?). But its not nearly as pathetic and sad as White calling Beckwith Doctor Beckwith in his exchanges. prophets in Acts 15:1 were not saved. Way to major in minors there, sport. Essau, what are you talking about? You have to expect to encounter such things with fallen human nature what it is. Both shows are available via Apologia Studios. All someone has to do is know the URL of the site they wish to forward to. If you are going to consider White calling a man a bald-faced lair a real issue. The Books of annals of the kings of Judah Esau attempts to keep up with me point for point for simply not agreeing with him, but he wont apply the same category error he does to James White to this fellow here, Edward. We, depending of context and abilities/gifts, use the appropriate skills, for the task at hand. Jimmy, please close the comments! righteous thing that I can do!. Love Jesus and His word. Dr. James R. White is a Calvinist theologian based out of Phoenix, Arizona . Akin does himself a disservice with this post because it simply added weight to Whites charge of double standard. Akin should consider the charity he expects White to display, and then display that in his own posts. When a Catholic is open to the idea that perhaps a Protestant was the one responsible for it, he is quick to put it down as a silly conspiracy theory. Jimmy has a legitimate point about a serious matter. Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world, and thus anyone who depicts his debate opponents as Islamists automatically loses whatever debate was underway due to forfeiture. And you do it using a goofy identity-hiding handle, too. Alpha and Omega Ministries is a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. As it is, there is enough uncharitableness to go around. . So, in the interest of being extremely clear and explicit: I assume that the Westminster Catechism and its related system of beliefs is true, therefore in my argument revelation is not defined by me, but by the Protestant Churches who uphold said Catechism. Much the same goes for the combox debates. And the illogic of sola scriptura is so simple: Its not in the scriptures. from it, that ye may Foxfire, my mistake. He has completed a BA in English, a NCTJ in Journalism and a BTEC level 4 in Art & Tattoo Design. Isnt Foxfier the name of a Clint Eastwood movie having to do with a so-named secret fighter jet or something like that? OK, Sandy, choose a side. Im fairly sure Esau has listed a few, as well. Lynchburger: Mt 16:18: Yes, that too is a type of relationship. Home But the more he immersed himself in Scripture the more he found to support the Catholic faith, and in 1992 he entered the Catholic Church. We are to forgive not just 7 timesremember those words? In a pigs eye. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not a person, its the church founded by Christ. In the lingo of the blogosphere a troll is someone who has no sincere interest in sharing ideas but only wishes to inject invective in order to anger other posters. Romans 14:13 is clear: No, I dont think I would use the exact same approach, and I have no illusion that he or any other human being is perfect. Very well-spotted. We should storm heaven with prayers for his conversion. Certainly not a serious one. I think JWs picture has served its purpose though but distracting the discuss from the origional point: JW impugned that Dr. Beckwith is a liar, that point in turn was diverting the discussion from the actual point of what Trent actually said. Registrant Street3: Crowne Publications, reprinted by Bethany House 1993, Rudolph Boshoff, South African Theological Seminary, 2019 Apologetics Conference, Stanmore Baptist Church, Sydney, Australia, Antioch Bible Church, Johannesburg, South Africa, Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church, Mechanicsville, VA, American Family Association, Laurel, Mississippi, Hillcrest Baptist Church, KwaZulu Natal, South Africa, 2016 Apologetics Conference, Stanmore Baptist Church, Sydney, Australia, Hope Reformed Baptist Church, Underwood, Australia, Apologetics Conference Christ Presbyterian Church, Magna, UT, Defending the Faith Conference, Christ Community Church, West Covina, CA, 2011 Psalm 119 Conference, Minneapolis, MN, Bethal Grace Baptist Church, Bellflower, CA, Discern Conference, Gospel Life Community Church, Santa Fe, Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Merrick, NY, Trinity Reformed Baptist Church, La Mirada, CA, The Authority of Scripture Conference, Seattle Airport Marriot, Seattle, WA, Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Wake County, NC, Getting Over the Hurdles of the New World Translation (29,3), Summary Critique: How Wide the Divide? ITS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH/CATHOLIC ANSWERS/JIMMY AKIN RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ALL ALONG!!! BTW: I was demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. If you are wrong about Sola Scriptura, then you are in a state of rebellion against Jesus Christ. Actually, Matthew, your comment doesnt hold much water. White portrayed X (Roman Catholics demanding charity and giving none) to Y (a picture of a Muslim demanding charity or calling for a beheading). : The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins: the mindset that occasioned those abuses After all, if its a good enough argument for your position, then it should be good enough for my position, right? I dont hear that concern from James White. No, its sold separately. I have to admit that I was reminded by the saying that if you have to explain the humor, it wasnt funny. Also, those of us in Protestantism do just say God did it as you so immaturely put it. If you are not a fan of the interlinked design, then you can also choose a clean and simple tattoo like this, with the omega and alpha symbols next to each other. Sorry to ruin yalls frenzy fest. Tech Street2: But, fineGreg does have half a point (even as he remains metaphysically convinced of Whites sinlessness in the photoshop matter): the domain name thing is stupid and childish. but white really isnt proving anything We deserve it! 1. Ill choose to not read Dr. Whites book at this time. And way more amusing than the actual photoshop. Heres the thing: It has never mattered if it was a joke or not. Good question, Esau. Before that time I was not really acquainted with any of the apologetics blogs on either side. So the same type of photo would be appropriate if demonstrated by a pro-choicer wishing to inject levity into the pro-life debate? a. Churchmouse??? Ill read it after the kids are in bed and dishes are done. Yes, I think there is something here, and its not just among the supporters of Jimmy and James; it begins at the top. The Chris Pinto vs. James White debate on whether Codex Sinaiticus is a modern forgery can be boiled down to a few considerations. As at least one person has suggested above, its time to stop feeding the energy machine. I mean, what do you tell people who stumble onto the site looking for theological answers who have never heard of James White? The more important and interesting point is whether the humor passes the common man test: would a common man, independent of theological connotations, find the joke funny? The Vision of Isaiah Both alpha and omega symbols have different meanings and when put together, these two Greek letters open the door to a wide range of interpretations and symbolism. I know when I first found this site, I read through a lot of the older posts, if I was interested in the topic. By their fruits you will know them. I guess were all waiting for something Greg McR, Some belive that is a miracle of sharing. A. Jeremiahs got a point, that its a little melodramatic to make this into Hes calling us bloodthirsty terrorists! The photoshops are kind of funny, if youre completely outside the debate (as I am), or would be funnier if White didnt actually *deserve* some of what anger hes already getting anyway. Or how shall they believe him of whom they have not heard? His Council of Rome? Mike, Ive used gallows humor myself. Any arguments he can raise against Catholicism have been rebutted a thousand times by Catholics. CareBear: 5 days and counting and no one has interacted with Dr. Whites points. another oh Doing evil that good might result is not I dont ask that you agree, but I do wish that you would try to understand that we are truly trying to do Gods will. How many authoritarian Catholics riot in the streets when the pope is savaged in political cartoons, as he is on a regular basis? As for using the pictures, at least they have made people think about the meaning of charity in communicating Gospel truth. Why is Bishop White so concerned with lay Catholic apologists? Ella, I might agree with some points he makes, but theyre overwhelmed by the mudslinging. Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church (Matt. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 10, 2007 11:30:58 AM Well, perhaps you should look elsewhere for those who have lost it. All other points aside whether the admonishing was truly needed or not is irrelevant. So in your mind, Carebear, Catholics have no reason to feel outrage at being compared to terrorists when they call for charity? BTW, you may not have noticed, but the post you refer to is a copy of a post to this web site. For whatever reason, James White seems to prefer projecting a more impassive public persona. They try to argue that this goes back all the way to Moses, however there is no proof for that, the writings of Talmud come into existence after the destruction of the Temple. On the contrary, the greater the outrage, the more delicious the cake. Well, the only defense you can offer is of someone on this thread having a serious discussion, presumably about the bad behavior of White, given that the topic of both posts have been his bad behavior. What can I say to that, in clear conscience? This is amazing, the trent thing wasnt the real issue at all. I sacrificed all to obtain a great treasure: The Church, her theology, her history was the treasure. full stop. As I have asserted before, I doubt few here have actually ever litened to a White debate. I said substance, not opinions. Yes, you do so insist, so Id appreciate it if you write an apology for saying you are owed an recantation. Someone ought to send this to Dave Armstrong. That said, I wouldnt get all worked up over this. My bad for thinking Elivs is dead, the Loch Ness Monster is a fairlytale, and that James White and co. didnt buy up that domain name and redirect it to Catholic Answers. So what were the Crusades and the Inquisition about, then? The whole point of the thing is that its just as irrational for Catholic Answers to do the auto-forward given that those who follow White are unlikely to stay and read the site as it would be for White to do it, just to have something to complain about. If he did it intentionally, that would make him a liar. yes The Prayer of Joseph If you have read at all, I already showed how I believe God used the church body to reveal divine canon to us. Fundementalists follow the Hadith and traditions of Islam which explain put the Quran in its context. You may think that I am misguided, but that is what I truly believe. We just happened to stumble into each other providentially. 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